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Vanessa Iris De Guzman's avatar

Thank you for your in depth definition of systems approach. You are right, it's important to study how the parts interact with each other. My take on this, Collaboration makes me study how each part of the system interact with each other. I silently evaluate through phenomenology why the parts fail to get the desired outcomes, collaboration requires respect/trust, then only they can establish shared vision/goals, communication & shared decision-making. Most of the attempts at Collaboration I observe fail to establish respect/trust, which is the most fundamental.

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David L. Kendall's avatar

After giving your essay a careful read, I offer these observations:

Your definition of "systems" is all encompassing. So far as I can tell, the definition excludes nothing whatsoever in life that involves cause and effect relationships. Your definition claims to be the science that rules them all. Please forgive my skepticism about such a claim. Science is the search for true positive statements. It follows many paths, and the closest thing to a discipline to rule them all is the science of philosophy, not systems analysis.

The notion of "balancing top-down intent with bottom-up emergence" is ephemeral; fire and ice; up vs down; left vs right; in a word, oxymoronic. It's the 200-year old myth of "mixed economy" propagated by just about every economics textbook written in the past 75 years. Top-down command and control exerted using force and threat of force always restricts, inhibits, and fouls voluntary exchange; “policy” annihilates voluntary interaction – most of which is exchang – among humans.

“Rules of the game,” as they are called, are fine and useful, so long as the rules are not enforced with force and threat of force, so long as the rules are voluntarily adopted by the players. Is that what you're calling for? If so, bravo; if not, boo-hiss. Your example of "food and drugs must meet safety standards" is incredible. Is that not what we've been doing for years? Has that not got us where we are? Consumers have not been empowered, they have been subjected to the SAD instead, the Standard American Diet that is killing millions of Americans. I encourage you to read the book Outlive by Dr. Peter Attia. Don’t even get me started about what is wrong with the Big Pharma industry.

The notion that we "need someone minding the whole system" is hubris that ensures exactly the conceit that Nobel economist Friedrich Hayek taught us. The "feedback loops, incentives, and information flows" that you speak of in systems do not exist without voluntary exchange, because it is voluntary exchange that creates them in the first place. I encourage you to read Hayek’s essay “The Use of Knowledge in Society.”

You speak of health care as if it were a single product, one that is homogeneous, needed by all, and evidently free --- if only we have the right "system" headed by the right top-down policies. Of course I know that you know that health care is many different goods and services; there is no minimum amount of health care that everyone needs and that can be produced by only MDs. Your proposition that health care in the 19th and early 20th Century was a “free-for-all” might be a bit of a disparaging mischaracterization. Health care in that era was just becoming science based. Had the industry not been overtaken by government operatives (at the urging of rent-seeking people), we might today be in a very different world of health care.

You suggest that health care is a “right.” But if so, for whom is production of health care a responsibility? You decry health care segregated by the mythical notion of “race,” but seem to be unaware that segregation was enforced by government, not by voluntary interaction among humans.

Your essay proposes that “market failure” caused people to be treaded unequally and unethically. I encourage you to read into the economics literature that explains just the opposite. People interacting voluntarily – with no ability to use force and threat of force like government operatives – have no ability prosper by treating others badly.

You wrote that unfettered systems will produce outcomes – but not necessarily the outcomes “we desire as a society (fairness, universality, etc.),” as if there is a “we” that all desire whatever it is that you mean by “fairness, universality, etc.” There is no “we” that desires; only individuals desire, and they do not desire the same health care, nor the same anything. I challenge you to give a definition of the word “fairness” that you think is “universal.”

Economics is the social science that studies how individuals choose to use scarce resources to satisfy something like unlimited wants, in a social context. Some of those wants are what we call health care. To imagine that something called “systems analysis” is the master science that rules all others is just a bit hubristic, no? I encourage you to read into economics as you have read into systems science. I predict that you have both the will and ability to understand that production of health care in a moral way at the lowest possible cost requires voluntary exchange, which is nothing at all like what we have in America today.

You propose that “the best approach will be a hybrid, leveraging the innovation and adaptability of markets and the fairness and coordination that public policy can provide.” I will push back and propose that the what we have today is exactly the outcome produced by public policy that results in outcomes many people will call “unfair,” little coordination, absolutely no price information, lots of what economists call “rent seeking,” high cost health care, and ever-advancing command and control from government operatives.

You assert that government “can also be an expression of our collective will to solve problems that individual actions alone won’t.” Your assertion appears to be unaware that what we have today is the result of government actions accomplished by government operatives. Your assertion appears to be unaware that there is no such thing as “our collective will. You are to be excused, of course; a very large majority of people are ignorant of the science of economics. Sadly enough, they do not know what they do not know, which is the most dreadful kind of ignorance.

You speak of a “corrupt or unregulated market system that, say, exploits consumers.” There is not and never has been a voluntary exchange market that has the power to exploit consumers. It takes a government and government operatives using force and threat of force to exploit consumers. Why? Because with voluntary exchange, no one has the ability to use force or threat of force to get their way. People engaging in voluntary exchange must be persuaded, because they cannot be coerced.

You argue that “the solution is not to have no policies, but to build more democratic feedback into policy-making.” I am astonished that you think democratic feedback is the solution, but fail to recognize that voluntary exchange enables that maximum democratic feedback possible, as individuals vote with their dollars to buy the health care they want, not buy the health care they do not want, and put out of business those health care providers that cost more than they are willing and able to pay.

Unfettered voluntary exchange is the only means to ensure “democratic feedback.” If you were thinking of voting when you used the word “democratic,” then I encourage you to read into the Public Choice literature of economics. Voting in elections is what has got us where we are today with health care, which is not a place that most people think is good.

You wrote, “systems thinking teaches us to always ask ‘And then what happens? And how will different parts of the system react or adapt?’” I am delighted to say that economics is really little more than critical thinking combined with asking “and then what” as the key methodology of what is called “the economic way of thinking.” We agree, then. Perhaps we just call it by different names, and we are just mutually ignorant of large parts of the terrain.

Our intentions are good, but we are only human. Let us continue to work to improve what we call the “health care system” of the USA. I have written about it in my Substack Economics and Freedom. I invite all who care about health care to give it a read here.

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